The HBAR Bull – Blade Wallet – A Portal to Web 3

(00:05):

Welcome back. I’m Brandon, the H Bar Bull, and I do some contract work for the H Bar Foundation. The competition in the Hedera wallet space is pretty intense, and one of the strongest in the field is Newcomer Blade Wallet. The founder Sammy is, uh, Hedera alum, looking to make a pretty big splash and we’ve got ’em here today. Welcome, Sammy.

 

(00:24):

Hello. Excited to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

 

(00:27):

Yeah. You guys have been doing a great job. So I really want to get into it. So, to start off, can you tell us about your journey and how you got to the point where you wanted to build a wallet for Hadera?

 

(00:38):

Sure. So my journey actually started when I went to a blockchain conference. This was around maybe I think 2017. And the speaker at the time, I don’t know, maybe the listeners probably know him, Charles Hoskinson from Cardan, and Ada was speaking, I was at the time in Japan and you know, ADA Cardan has a community in Japan. He used to come to Japan a lot. I just happened to be at that seminar and listening to him and he started talking about a use case where, what would the world be like if you can sell a part of your real estate and exchange it for a Starbucks coffee? And to be honest, that was a bit of a shocker for me, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because it was one of the first sort of web three conferences that I’ve been to. And I’m like, you know, is this really something that is possible?

 

(01:35):

I had spent 17 years of my life in finance and we know how much friction there is, right? There’s so many middleman in finance. Sure. And this guy that I never met is on stage talking about converting a piece of real estate into a Starbucks coffee. So that really was the beginning of my journey into Web three. I started looking into other protocol, ADA, of course, card. I was interested, but ultimately I ended up running into Hadera who was off of a YouTube video by this person called Mike Maloney. Uh, man’s Harmon was speaking to him and I was like, yeah, actually if we have this technology, then we can probably fulfill the promise of what Hoskinson was talking about, actually converting a real estate into a piece of coffee, right? A coffee. So I started researching about Hadera. It just so happened that the Hadera team was stopping over in Japan.

 

(02:36):

I met the team. I had already known a lot about Hadera, and they’re like, look, why don’t you come on board and help us grow the ecosystem? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that was my initial foray into Hadera. We started first by speaking to Enterprises. Cuz you know, we started with by building the council, so the Asian council members, uh, Noora Holdings, lg Shehan Bank. We had a lot of interaction with the council members to try to figure out how they would first be involved in Web three. What were the pain points in them actually launching use cases on Web three. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why they hadn’t already ventured into Web three. It’s basically this enterprise BD that we continued on for, you know, a good three years, three and a half years. And now because of the immense, uh, and fantastic work of the entire Hadera team, we have 26, 27 council members that are governing the platform.

 

(03:36):

Now, middle of last year in many conversations, because we had been working with these enterprises for a while now, some of them were ready to launch use cases and the first question was, okay, great, we wanna launch this use case. Um, we need a wallet. And so we went out as Hadera person to the ecosystem. I think Hash Pack was just starting around that middle of maybe last year. There were a few other wallets, but by and large the feedback was that there’s a massive hole. There’s a big hole in the Hadera ecosystem, which is a solution for enterprises, specifically for enterprises and their use cases to be able to go to market mm-hmm. <affirmative> and go to market, first of all, in a way that is easy and quick and they can learn from it and continue iterating. Cuz you know, large enterprises generally don’t go make a splash and, and sort of leave it to luck. They would slowly build up, um, add more credibility to the use case and then launch. So that’s where the original idea came. Cuz I was like, I joined Hadera to really onboard a billion users, make this value transfer seamless.

 

(05:00):

Now we have Hadera built, but the use cases are not gonna be able to launch unless we have a wallet that specifically serves them. And Sure. That basically began the journey.

 

(05:10):

I gotcha. So you again came from Hedera. What, why do you think so many Hedera alums stay within the Hedera ecosystem? I’m just curious.

 

(05:20):

I mean, that’s, uh, uh, that’s a great question. I mean, I’m, I, uh, I really truly believe that the way that Hadera is approaching the market, the way that Hadera is approaching it, is unique and different from other protocols in the sense that I think there’s an understanding that we can’t do it alone. Like we have to involve the regulators, we have to involve companies, we have to involve essentially, sort of parts of society and do it all together. And it’s gonna take a long time. Like from day one, Manson, Lehman, were like, it’s gonna be a hundred year project. Yeah.

 

(06:06):

And working in enterprise for most of my life, I understand that it’s not gonna be an easy journey, especially if this is gonna be, uh, part of the internet. So I think, um, and this is my personal experience with Hedera is first of all, I truly believe that this is, um, a novel approach and approach that other layer ones aren’t taking, first of all, and an approach that I personally can see the traction because I am working with these enterprises. I am building a wallet, and I am seeing these use cases launch. And also it is, uh, to be, to be honest with you, the the personality of Manz mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and Lehman, which I think a lot of people really appreciate, right. Because yeah. You know, the, the, the way the founders think, um, really emanates down into the organization. Of course, their aspects that people wish would be different, but it’s part of the D N A and I and I think they have, um, really collected a whole bunch of people that, um, you know, share the vision.

 

(07:15):

Yeah. And I think that’s exactly it. You know, you have that professionalism, you have natural teachers, and you have the vision. You combine all that stuff and, and people wanna stick around. They wanna see where this, uh, journey goes. Right. So Sammy, your mission is to onboard the next billion users. And I heard something similar from Google recently. Uh, they said they wanted to onboard the next billion users. They were talking about Web three. I hope you’re talking about Hedera itself. How do you help facilitate that through a Hedera wallet?

 

(07:43):

Yeah, yeah. So again, one of the, one of the original reasons I I joined Hedera was because I truly thought that they have a legitimate shot in onboarding the next billion users through enterprises. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> basically through an association of trust. In other words, rather than a user having to trust Hadera, which is a new technology, Hadera, which is Web three Hadera, which is a completely new concept. The approach really is okay, a user trust, LG and LG is using Hadera good enough for us. My mom uses Google. Okay, great. Well, Google is using Hadera. That’s good enough for her. Sure. Same with Shan. Bang, shame with no more. Same with all of the governing council members in the sense that the billion users, in my view, aren’t in Web three right now. The billion users are out there using Facebook, using Google, using lg. The a the 1 billion users that we’re going after are actually users of enterprises.

 

(08:55):

So the way that we’re actually approaching onboarding the next billion users onto Hadera as the first step, right? Because we are onboarding enterprise users onto Hadera, and ultimately we want to start educating them more and more so that they become web three natives. Mm. Now Web two and web three is like a continuum, right? You have web two users, you can say maybe my, even my brother is probably web two, right? Um, web three, I guess Brandon, you probably would be web three, right? You consider yourself as like a web three, web three person. Sure. So what I have found, and what our team has found is once you enter the Web three space, you truly are a believer already, right? Okay. You can send cryptocurrency 24 hours, 365 days a week, uh, a year. That’s awesome. Right? The experience of N F T, the experience of Web three once you’re in it, creates really true believers. But the downside is, you, you start to forget the people that sort of are left behind, the billion people that are left really in the web two, 2.1, 2.2, maybe even up to 2.5, start talking about NFTs. You start talking about gating, you start talking about sold bond tokens, you start using this lingo, you start in your wallet fee. You know, this fee has been paid to this node. You know, many, many Web three specific things that we find really inhibit us stewarding web two users onto web three. Yeah.

 

(10:37):

It’s all on the one side of the chasm. It’s all the early adopters and innovators. It, it may, that’s why the chasm is there, right? To, to get to those, uh, the early majority, it’s, it’s not easy.

 

(10:48):

Absolutely. Right. And, and in that sense, we made a very specific choice, conscious choice that we are Web three community, we are Hadera community. I love Hadera. And you know, I have dedicated, uh, you know, my past, is it four, four years to Hadera and I wanna continue as long as I can to make hadera into the, the success that it potentially can be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But we needed to really look at what do users who are customers of Web two enterprises, what are they looking for? Right? And that actually means that it’s a different experience. It’s a different user interface. And maybe there are use cases, for example, that you don’t even see the Blade logo because we’re working in the background for a seamless, immersive experience. Some business workflows don’t want people to leave their app. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they want the account creation, they want the association, they want all of that to happen within the app. And so these, I would say more custom made, tailor user journeys are the kind of user journeys that we think as long as we can provide to the enterprises who are willing and ready to go to market, a way to onboard the billion users. Mm-hmm.

 

(12:19):

<affirmative>. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. So, uh, uh, another thing I heard you say, uh, in the past is Blade is a layer two solution. So what do you mean when you say Blade is a layer two solution for Hedera?

 

(12:32):

Yeah, so there’s the hash graph consensus algorithm, which is a very, let’s say very generic all-purpose platform, let’s say. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then on top of that are built Hadera consensus service, Hadera Token Service, and Hadera file service. So then you basically grab a very, very general purpose, sort of timestamping, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m generalizing. I know some people might be like, it’s more than timestamping. Sure. But let’s just say it’s by and large Timestamping transactions in a fair and decentralized way. And then you clump this together to something that people can more easily use. And that’s the sort of higher, I would say abstraction, right? Hadera token service. If you want to mint NFTs, if you want to send cryptocurrency, if you want, uh, to mint fungible tokens, you basically clump it into the Hadera token service. And then you have Hadera Consensus Service, which is for different use cases.

 

(13:38):

And Hadera file service would be for, again, you know, people who maybe you want to use something similar to a decentralized file storage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it would be hashes and not the files. What we have found in our journey of enterprise business development is there’s a need for another layer of abstraction, another layer higher, and we call it business templates. In other words, if you go to a Web two enterprise and let’s say a business person there that does not have that much knowledge about Web three or hadera, then to go and sell them the token service and be like, look, you can do these million things on the Token Service. Why don’t you try is a bit of a difficult sell unless you are already sort of, uh, down the journey, so to speak. So the layer two solution that we’re talking about is, okay, let’s create business templates on top of these.

 

(14:36):

On top of the Hadera token service. For example, mint, uh, loyalty card. Okay. That’s clumping a few of these APIs into a loyalty token. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> great. We also have, we call it a blade link, but we also have a flow where it’s like, okay, drop your N F T through a simple link or a QR code, upload your image outcomes, a QR code. And all you gotta do is basically send it to your customers. They don’t need to know anything about Web three, anything about Hadera, whatnot. They click on the button and they’ll end up with N N F T. There’s other things that we have found that enterprises require around the things that they’re doing right now. And generally they are around loyalty, cuz you want to engage your customers more. They’re token gating, which is maybe similar to loyalty, but it’s a way of providing access.

 

(15:33):

So we call it sort of Web three identity. And there’s a general need to be able to create value and transfer the value back and forth. Those are the kind of things that we are providing sort of templates for. And ultimately we want enterprises to be able to come to our console, drag and drop. It’s a turnkey solution. And you meant loyalty cards, you meant Sure. Uh, normal NFTs and X Y Z essentially a Blade Link is a link, it’s a QR code. And you would, so coming from a user, cuz we al we always try to think from the user’s perspective. So the user’s journey would be, you would open a tweet, you would go to a website, you would go to an event, some engagement, um, that would basically expose you to a link or a QR code, and that QR code you’ll click on.

 

(16:32):

And that would initiate a journey, which involves installing, downloading the wallet, creating an account, doing the token association, and transferring the N F T itself from the customer’s treasury into the Blade wallet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So a Blade Link is basically a customized user journey. Okay. We have Blade links where it’s a normal, um, N F T and a drop. The next layer of a Blade link is, it’s an payment for an N F T that is dropped. And then we have another layer where it’s a payment for an N F T that ultimately gates you for specific services and that has dropped in your wallet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then the final tier is we have, uh, what we call Smart NFTs that are NFTs that respond to the activity that you do in Wallet. They change essentially the image. It’s kind of like a d it’s a play on dynamic nft really Uhhuh <affirmative>, but give you an example. If you do 10 transactions a month, then your N F T will change from a bronze to a silver and you will be able to access, you know, further giveaways or further events or whatnot. So ultimately we want the user experience to be, all we do is we provide the enterprise with a link and they go and give that link to their customers through whatever means they want. And ultimately each person that clicks that link is each net new web two user onto Viera.

 

(18:15):

So I mean like that, that gamifies things, you know, loyalty, all that kind of stuff. You know, you go from bronze to silver, silver to gold, gold to platinum, platinum to to diamond or whatever. But that people get into that and that’s one of the other things that we just did over this past weekend. Uh, karate Combat is trying to do the same thing. Uh, I heard that you guys are actually helping Karate Combat out. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about that?

 

(18:37):

That’s right. Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, we, we are an enterprise wallet and so we provide a bespoke solution based on how our customers, which is the use cases. In this case, this would be Karate Combat and Karate Combat and Blade have an agreement, an arrangement where we are providing them with the Hadera wallet specific functionality within their app. So if you go to the Karate Combat app, when it is launched, it’s an amazing use case. I know you, uh, interviewed a whole bunch of people over there. They want the user to come into the app, they want the user to be able to interact with the app immediately without necessarily the friction of downloading an extra wallet. Understanding what a creating an account is, understanding what a token is, X, Y, Z. So the magic behind what enables the Karate Combat iOS app is through our S D K, we call it Swift Blade.

 

(19:43):

Okay. It’s basically, uh, a sort of a swift sd K Swift is basically the language of iOS and we’re working with a karate team to essentially enable that experience. Again, blade is not in the forefront because it’s not about Blade. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s about Karate Combat, it’s about their users. And ultimately again, we want these users who would come and play the game, and then maybe we will add some functionality of loyalty and then we will add some other functionality and maybe they’ll be defi towards the web three, uh, uh, spectrum. And maybe there’s some token swapping, you know, towards that spectrum as well. But what we wanna do is first create an account. Come on Hadera, just try this awesome app that is amazing in its own right. And that is, you know, karate Combat is a, is a great example. Cause they have a massive community, very engaged, and I think it’s gonna be one of the, you know, marquee use cases that, that Hadera would be able to benefit

 

(20:46):

From. Yeah, absolutely. It’s a, it was a blast down there. I was amazed with the fights, all the people that were involved. It was, it was fantastic. You know, we’ve been talking a lot about Enterprise, which we often do when it comes to Hedera. Uh, but I also think, you know, direct retail participation is also critical. And I mean, you’re kind of blurring those lines, but what do you think has the most potential in Hedera, uh, when it comes to retail? Defi, NFTs gaming? Or, or do you think it’s something else?

 

(21:13):

Yeah. Um, so we think, again, in a spectrum of Web two to web three, there are things, uh, defi for example, we think is more towards the Web three spectrum mm-hmm. <affirmative> and things like Simple NFTs with utility is more towards the web two spectrum. So, um, we actually think, and we’re, we’re actually focused pretty much entirely on thinking about how we add utility to NFTs

 

(21:45):

Because that’s the, because

 

(21:46):

NFTs Yeah. And, you know, NFTs really, maybe, you know, again, I joined this, uh, journey because can you change, uh, real estate to a Starbucks coffee as a N F T ultimately to a real good mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? So it’s a N F T to a real world good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> swap happening. Sure. And we think that, you know, buy low sell high NFTs, which were, you know, the, the first iterations of sort of NFTs and speculations and whatnot. Slowly companies are moving to add some more features to these NFTs. We think the features are gonna be the three aspects that, um, is critical to the success of Web three itself. The first layer being identity, you have this N F T, you’re welcome in this community, you have this N F T, you can get access to X, Y, Z. So that’s, uh, what Vitalik, I guess talks about more soul bound tokens, right?

 

(22:52):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s sort of a real web three credential. Sure. So we think NFTs will first be infused with some sort of gating, some sort of credential ID mechanism, and we are already doing it with some of our giveaways. The second component is the value creation and transfer. So people can already right now buy NFTs using H Bars. So we are right now enabling a flow for a very large enterprise where it’s credit card straight to NFT and there’s no crypto involvement whatsoever. And that is ultimately the flow that we find Web two users will be much more akin to actually start transacting and buying NFTs as opposed to right now buying crypto, buying U S D C and then converting that and X, Y, Z. So we have that direct fiat to NFT workflow. So that’s the second payment component. And then the, the final component we think is the final component to add to NFTs is communication.

 

(23:51):

In other words, you owning a certain N F T means you’re part of a certain community. If I own the same N F T, it probably means I’m part of the same community. Now, how do you an NFT holder and me N F T holder of maybe the same token Id communicate is we think a very important component to having this sort of organic social community grow and thrive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, ultimately for that we need discovery, which we can already do, right? Token id you have, uh, hangry baboons, I have Koala Hash Club. Are these same communities, are these different communities? Let’s say they are in the same category, then can we discover each other? Yes. We can through, we already have push notifications on the roadmap. So maybe it is me sending you a direct message and you get a push notification saying, Hey, somebody wants to make you an offer or somebody wants to send you a message. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s actually not that far off from, um, reality I would say, you know, three to six months.

 

(24:57):

Now, I, I love the vision. So you’re talking an awful lot about NFTs, but Yeah, when I think about, about some of these, uh, enterprise use cases, well, like Karate combat, right? That’s a fungible token. I is there interest in fungible tokens for things like loyalty points?

 

(25:11):

Yeah. And uh, you know, so fungible karate combat tokens are fungible tokens in the sense that one karate token can be exchanged for another karate token, but within the karate ecosystem, like a karate token sort of identify somebody as being part of the karate ecosystem. So compared to, let’s say another fungible token, it is a non fungible ecosystem. Mm-hmm.

 

(25:36):

Okay. If that makes sense. Yeah. Now, um, the reason why I mentioned that is because what we can do with NFTs, we can do with fungible tokens. In other words, if you own a hundred karate tokens, uh, or if you interact with X amount of karate tokens, then you get certain credentialing or certain access. The concept is very similar. It doesn’t have to necessarily be an N F T. Uh, I think it might be helpful to think about more from community. So there’s the karate community, which is bound by a fungible token called the Karate Token. Then there’s some other, let’s say we’re working with Koala Hash Club and we’re looking to be their wallet for an amazing feature qualified club that’s coming up. Maybe there’s a potential for Karate Combat and Quala Hash Club to collaborate to have, uh, koala combat. Sure. You know, it’s something Yeah. You know, that, that, yeah. This is, we gotta have some fun with it. And, you know, with Koala is, uh, koala Hash Club has NFTs mm-hmm. <affirmative> Karate Combat has fungible tokens. Can the two cross pollinate? Absolutely. We don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be able to, and technologically it’s not that different, I would say.

 

(26:55):

Yeah. And actually we had a gaming Twitter space just last week and we were talking about this, how we think Web three gaming has, is gonna see a lot more collaboration, a across different games and different platforms and all that kind of stuff. And we’re already seeing it. So it’s, it’s definitely exciting. Speaking of exciting, what does Blade have coming that the community should be most excited about?

 

(27:15):

Yeah, I mean maybe, maybe if I may just go through what Blade already has because Sure. Again, you know, blade ultimately would like to provide a great B2C experience mm-hmm. <affirmative>, in other words, you can go to Play Store or the community members that are listening to this can go to the Play Store, iOS store, Chrome extension, download the Blade Wallet and have a great B2C experience. At the same time, we are working with these enterprises to give a very customized user journey for their customers. So that is essentially two products that we’re working on concurrently at the same time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it, it is been our decision to really first focus on getting these users, getting these web two users, creating hundreds of thousands of accounts, and then slowly build out our B2C capabilities, which we have made quite a bit of headway. But I would say all due respect, um, you know, we have a lot of respect for what Hatchback is doing.

 

(28:17):

For example, great B2C wallet, and actually quite a few of our, of, of our employees use the Hatchback wallet for let’s say their N F T stuff. Sure. There’s others that use the Blade Wallet, including myself, for holding, let’s say a lot of H bars mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that’s just because we are focused on the enterprise user journey and there’s certain requirements from enterprises, for example, the n the necessity of the wallet to be audited. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, before even that we launched, we had to make sure that we had zero users. We spent a lot of money on this audit to make sure everything was, was checked up because we knew from our experience with enterprises, if they’re gonna use the wallet they need to make sure they have a third party tick off on it. Sure. So that’s one of the aspects that we worked on.

 

(29:04):

Some other aspects that we worked on were more around the integration aspects. So we have a security audit, we have a iOS app, we have an Android app, we have, uh, a Chrome extension already. We, you can trade NFTs for H bars within the wallet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you can buy H Bars, you can buy U S D C. And there’s basically the, I would say, fundamental basics of, uh, a decent B2C wallet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well, I would be the first to say that we have more work ahead of us to become more and more, I would say, sort of focused on some of the more, you know, community requested features mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if that makes any sense. Sure, sure. Um, some of the things that we are super excited about is N F T to N F T Exchange because we think people should be able to trade NFTs like baseball cards, Hey, I’ll C trade my Koala for one of your slime NFTs and 10 of your karate tokens.

 

(30:12):

Yeah. Okay. Is that a fair exchange or not? You know, I, we don’t know. But what we have seen is, um, hey, I’ll exchange two of my commons for one of your errors. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that’s an exchange that we have seen people ask for. Um, and ultimately that use case is an example of escrow use case. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Sure. In other words, you can exchange a non fungible value. Maybe it’s a real estate over here. Maybe it’s, let’s say, uh, an agreement, maybe it’s a DocuSign type of thing. It’s an N F T something unique. Another unique thing, without involving a payment mechanism, you’re swapping the two. So it involves schedule transactions, it involve atomic swaps and involves discoverability sort of, uh, feature, which we’re super excited about. The other thing that we’re excited about I mentioned is, uh, blade Links. Yeah. And really we want to be able to offer a platform where people can come and they can literally issue these links.

 

(31:24):

You have URLs and QR codes being issued and influencers are sending it to their community members and companies are putting it on their socials and it’s being used in events. There’s a whole bunch of hadera goodness and a bit of blade goodness behind it. But ultimately we want these blade links to disseminate as many potentially N F T use cases or even if you want to overlay it with payment, that’s fine. If you wanna overlay it with some loyalty, that’s also okay. But it all begins with Simple Drop. And then we believe the journey starts from there. So Blade Links is actually already live, um, we’re already speaking to, so we did a blade link with toco. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, the DLA Piper, um, security, uh, token platform. We’ve done blade links with the Fashion Institute of Technology. We’ve done, uh, blade links with, well, we’re working on a blade link with a payment option with a large enterprise. So these blade links are already being issued shared with Web two users. Um, what we are working on is a way for a platform, a website where you can come and just issue these blade links without even talking to us. Um, and that launch is coming up. I’m gonna put some fire under the developers, uh, <laugh>. Um, but mid-December is when we’re hoping that we have, uh, uh, a website, a portal where people can issue these bla links.

 

(32:54):

Music to my ears. Sammy, this has been a blast. Is there anything else you’d like to pass on to the community before we let you go?

 

(33:01):

Yeah, look, if, if I can spend, you know, a little bit of time just, um, highlighting some of the other use cases, amazing use cases that are coming. Yeah. Mio is a use case. M i o o Mio Tech that we’re working very closely with. It’s uh, digital twin use case. They have hundreds of brand companies that they work with. They essentially issue tags on luxury brand items. You go into a luxury brand shop, you buy a luxury item and then you scan the code and a digital twin n f t is dropped into your blade wallet. On top of that, of course you can then start thinking about, okay, maybe this is access then maybe it’s loyalty and whatnot. So amazing use case that is coming on board. We’re working very, very closely with them. This is a Blade Link use case where you see the blade in their app.

 

(34:00):

Karate Combat is a use case that we mentioned. They’re a blade link, but you don’t see the blade. It’s behind the scenes because that’s what they require. And I think it’s very important for an immersive experience. We have another fantastic use case 1, 2 11 that is coming on board. 3 million plus users a huge sports platform in India. They’re growing like crazy. They’re using a Blade link again. They’ll have a blade link on their app and the intent is let’s create, let’s get people onto Hadera and then we’ll start adding more and more functionality on Kuala Hash Club. We’re working very, very closely with them to first of all add utility to their amazing NFTs. My kids want these NFTs really badly, but the expensive ones is the ones they want. So we have to negotiate. Sure. Um, and, you know, ultimately qualified club, for example, some other ones that I can’t really talk about right now, but I think the community, Hadera community will be happy that we’re growing. We went from a million accounts to 1.2 million accounts, 200,000 by the blessing of all of, um, our stakeholders, uh, are probably net new users into Hadera from these web two use cases from play to earn games from these, uh, blade links. And hopefully we’ll get more and more people that otherwise would not have come on to Hadera that would not have entered into this Web three journey to click on that link and come and try us out. And we’re pretty confident that once you try, it’s very difficult to go back.

 

(35:41):

Yeah. That get ’em to go down that rabbit hole. Sammy, thank you so much for swinging by and best of luck to you and Blade.

 

(35:49):

Appreciate it. Thank you so much, Brandon.